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124: Event Finals at the 2014 World Championships

yao jinnan huang huidan bars
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In the News

Our coverage of the 2014 Gymnastics World Championships in Nanning, China continues with a full recap of the women’s and men’s all-around final.  Uncle Tim, Lauren and Jessica chat about:

  • Every single event final, even rings and pommel horse!
  • The judging of the balance beam final Mustafina’s score vs. Terramoto’s score.
  • Which side of the gymnastics debate won Execution or Difficulty. We have the statistical proof in this week’s edition of Sexy Data.
  • Which gymnastics need to sit in over splits until next year’s worlds or stop complaining about their E scores.
  • Bruno Grandi’s latest call for change. Why doesn’t he understand that EXECUTION IS NOT ARTISTRY!
  • All the ways in which the Italian Gymnastics Federation is like the Perez Hilton of gymnastics federations.
  • Would reducing the number of skills with a simultaneous minimum time limit on floor (for men and women) and beam, help address the lack of artistry in the current system.

Contest Alert!

Why:  We want to create a playlist of songs that should be used for floor routines.

What:  Send us the song title and artist name for a song that’s never been used in a floor routine before.

How to Enter: Send your song to gymcastic@gmail.com, and we will choose the winners at random. Not Twitter or Facebook, please!

Deadline: November 1, 2014

Prizes:  Official P&G Championships chalk (a whole box!), black polo shirt (small),  water bottle,  towel with carrying case.

Related Links

Uncle Tim puts the artistic in men’s gymnastics over on Uncle Tim Talks Men’s GymLauren Hopkins is head honcho over at The Gymternet.  Find inspiration for your adult gymnastics career at Masters Gymnastics.

Watch the Universal Sports broadcast for free on http://www.usagymworlds.com/live/

Check out the video grid of all the available routines from Worlds http://thegymter.net/2014/10/05/worlds-qualification-videos-running-master-list/

 

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Angel
Angel
7 years ago

So first I have to say that I love this so much. A guy who comes to my gym for adult gymnastics told me about this. I just want to add a little correction. At the 2003 worlds, Hollie’s bar title was not in jeopardy because that incident happened during team finals, not event finals. Thanks!

Angel
Angel
7 years ago

I may be chastised for this, but as far as women vault goes, I think that once simone upgrades her second vault, Maroney is going to become redundant. She can’t contribute ,in my opinion, on any event where the USA may need help and we are already so far ahead of the rest of the world on vault. This is totally up for change but I will just have to wait and see until after she is healed and I see what she is working on when she is healthy.

Alyssia
Alyssia
7 years ago

I thought the new rule for grips was supposed to be starting in January? Not sure though, but that’s what I heard.
And lol I was thinking they probably wanted to put on Ukraine’s anthem but it was a touch screen and their finger slipped haha. I mean Uz is close to Uk so.

The only change I wanna see in the CoP is that stupid cap on dance elements. Like. Basically every gymnast can do an E acro skill, any elite gymnast for sure. But like, hardly anyone does an E dance skill? More gymnasts do F+ skills in their routines than E dance skills. I mean I didn’t count but I assume I’m right. Obviously there is something going wrong there? That should change.
And sure execution is not artistry, but until now, all the artistry deductions (which can add up to more than 2 points!!!) are done on the E score.. And that’s why I’m annoyed when some people think X’s E score should be higher because they landed better than Y’s. Artistry deductions are less visible and they SHOULD be more visible just so people can understand. More transparancy. We can say more about someone’s artistry then, or about a country’s, I guess. And the .2 deductions should be adopted too. Cutting skills… ONLY if there is an extra requirement so the D scores would end up slightly similar, because it wouldn’t be fair if floor is your best event. But even then I’m like no. Although I do see what Jess is saying about being able to dance and being forced to if there is a minimum time and a lower maximum skills.

Parallel bars is like… like Jess said, some can do it soooo artistically. Like Oleg. Or like Berki on pommels. I think only people who have some sort of talent for a certain event can make it look artistic.

As far as I know, Steingruber had been trying to do a DTY but she missed all of them in PT and I just don’t think she could do it.. since her injury earlier this year I haven’t seen her do or hit one.

I think by the way, that you can and should deduct for the legs apart in the Pak for Huidan, but only BEFORE she catches the low bar. Because then it is definitely an execution flaw in the Pak skill. Nevertheless she definitely should have won. I’M JUST SO GLAD THAT SPIRIDONOVA WON BRONZE THOUGH because I always felt she was underscored because.. she’s not Aliya lol. I think her execution was definitely better than Locklear’s, also than Aliya’s this time, and just… I agree on her getting such a high E score, although Dandan’s probably should have been higher.

I’m not really upset with Aliya’s BB bronze.. I mean, you all know I try to not be a terrible stan, but .. I don’t know. To a certain extent, I think it’s great that she medaled without one of the requirements.. I guess requirement shouldn’t be called a requirement. They’re bonus points. Obviously if a routine doesn’t have a certain requirement, it’s not an illegitimate routine or whatever. Tons of people have C dismounts but their routines are just as legit as anyone elses, except it has lower D and generally scores lower. But if you have someone like Aliya who manages to have a great execution while not making any of her connections and even losing a CR.. that’s kind of a big thing? But in a good way?

I don’t know, the CoP isn’t the law and the word requirement makes it sound like it. I think this thing is quite a breakthrough.

This all regardless of whether Aliya deserved it because of E scores or whatever.

And I’m glad I could agree with you on all the other event final issues and things! Except for Aliya’s face being dead. In the pictures from floor finals I definitely saw expressions. And I mean, artistry isn’t just face, it’s also posture and performance and how you carry yourself and yeah, as you say. It’s an ongoing discussion. Although the last bit of Aliya’s routine, after her two leaps, in floor final she was like ON IT, I thought. 🙂
Erika Fasana seems sooo nice, and also Elisa Meneghini! I often see her reply to other elite’s instagrams! She seems so nice too, so sad she couldn’t compete!

I’m gonna go home now (I’m at work lol) so I’ll maybe write a lil bit about the last part later!

Alyssia
Alyssia
7 years ago

Ok so the Epke/Kohei thing… Sure Kohei should have outscored Epke a little bit probably?? I feel Epke’s execution was MUCH closer to Kohei than you guys made it seem.. Idk. Kohei’s hop on his landing wasn’t tiny, it was pretty big (Epke had a tiny one. Kohei’s was MUCH bigger). I’m not a MAG CoP expert, but Epke’s messy legs weren’t.. that messy? Often his form on his releases was like.. knees apart/feet together in a way that you see Paks done in UB that you can’t really deduct for. But yeah ranking overall, was a yes. Epke’s E score on bars was like 8.3 last year and he was MUCH messier so his score this final seemed legit. Kohei’s should maybe be a tenth or so higher, not much more imo.

Helena
Helena
7 years ago

I find it interesting to see how Grandi is looking into other judged sports to see how their scoring systems could be adopted into gymnastics. But it makes me wonder how much research has he done into it besides naming Diving as an example. Tbh I doubt he understands how diving is scored. The 3 middle execution scores are summed and then multiplied by the difficulty rating. A simple calculation will show that increasing each judge’s score by 0.1 will have less of an increase than increasing the difficulty by 0.1—difficulty will still somehow prevail over execution. I’ve seen divers from lesser known sport countries make the podium with more difficult dives than those with cleaner but simpler dives. There is always going to be that sort of flaw in every judged sport, and so I feel it’s going to be never ending.

With that said, maybe if this current system becomes more problematic in the future, then it would probably be wise to look into other judged sports and create some variation that combines the best of every one of them. Maybe they should sum the 3 middle E scores then add the D score to it to put more weight on execution, or would that be overkill on the execution—if such a thing exists? But in my opinion, the current scoring system in place seems to be fair for the most part as we’ve seen the majority of winners have the best combination of difficulty AND execution.

Kari
Kari
7 years ago

Aliya’s BB bronze is displeasing to most of us, except gym fans that care more about stanning than they do about loving the sport, because Asuka was underscored and because if it was any other gymnasts in jeopardy of losing a medal, such as Ellie Black being in Aliya’s position, Asuka certainly would have her medal.

Im glad to see most people including Musty fans angry for another gymnasts losing out. Hell, Im glad to see gymnasts from non big 4 nations defending Asuka and disparaging the FIG judges. I think people are just fed up with all of Aliya’s controversial bronzes which is like all she seems to win since her comeback. Okay, so now im letting my bitterness get the better of me; I like Aliya but she is gifted more than other gymnasts in the sport. Likewise, how is her execution better in EF FX when she stuck everything and her dance elements were completed in Quals but in In finals, she fell out of her triple she had .3 on each landing… and yet scored higher than in quals??? I don’t think it was a conspiracy to see american domination end or anything but i think judges just gift this girl so much and Vanessa’s remarks are like the accumulation of the fury of non Big 4 gymnasts who are afraid of being called bad sports when they talk about their treatment by judges. To be from a non big 4 nation you have to be excellent to get an excellent score; if you’re Musty you only have to be good to get an excellent score.

Asacfan
Asacfan
7 years ago

Oh yeah, when at last year Simone get that controversial bronze no one was talking about it just about how racist are Ferlito’s words. But now when that happened with Aliya, of course Vanessa’s critisism is legitime. So why was Carlotta wrong and Vanessa is right? Let’s be objective. Doing laid out double double is not a reason to give a worlds medal to such gymnast like Skinner. And finally where have you seen .3 steps on landings in Aliya’s routine?

Right-O
Right-O
7 years ago

Right, so basically, as long as Aliya takes advantage of her status, it’s a COMPLETELY AND ABSOLUTE PROBLEM!!!! But when others take advantage of the Code (AKA “code-whoring” as Jess calls it so lovingly”), it is ABSOLUTELY OKAY!! :))

Give me a fucking break. Let’s be real. None of you gym fans would be as annoyed about these so-called “controversial bronzes” if it wasn’t Aliya Mustafina who won them. Hell, none of you WERE as annoyed about these “controversial medals” when Biles somehow was gifted the bronze on beam last year when she clearly shouldn’t have been. And let’s not talk about how FOR SOME ODD REASON, both Ross’ and Biles’ inquiries were accepted last year but FOR SOME ODD REASON, Mustafina’s wasn’t.

Look, I don’t see any problem whatsoever with a gymnast taking full advantage of all the resources and abilities that she/he has. This, to me, is no different than what any other gymnast is doing in the world. The whole point of competition is to win, from the athlete’s standpoint, and to do that, they must make use of every angle of attack they have. It doesn’t bother me at all that Mustafina does this with her elegance and reputation just as others do in other manners.

And like someone said previously, where were you guys talking when Biles was gifted the beam bronze last year? Look, what Ferlito said was wrong and racist, yes, but you know what, that bronze was just as gifted to Biles as Mustafina’s was this year. (Also does anyone else find it amusing that the beam gold and bronze medalists from last year have flipped this year?) So unless you’re going to complain about everything in the same category to the exact same level, you need to stop singling out Mustafina.

Usually this podcast has been able to either treat Mustafina fairly when necessary (after Euros last year and this year) or just gloss over her when they know that they will not be able to treat and talk about her fairly (the Russian Nationals Redo this year and World’s beam final coverage last year). But it’s really disgusting to see you guys jump on the Mustafina-hating bandwagon.

And finally, it’s ridiculous that there are honestly some people out there who think Grandi has a conspiracy against the Americans/Biles. Do you people honestly think that Grandi has nothing better to do with his time as FIG president than just worry about one country? Hell, if anything, thanks to the amount USAG has to pay to the FIG in annual dues (just by being a member; I’m not saying that there is any corruption involved because I don’t believe there is), the only thing Grandi should be doing is making sure that Steve Penny and Marta Karolyi are happy.

Can I also say that this entire fan community never actually seems to give Grandi a chance? In the past five or six years, have any of us ever actually just taken Grandi’s words a week or so of thought before we all start just complaining about everything and anything he says? Can we please please just for once give what he says a chance before we shoot it down? I mean come on guys, it’s not like he paid his way to the FIG presidency. He was elected because people in the gymnastics community (not fans, legitimately in the inner workings of the gymnastics community) felt that he actually knew/know his stuff. Call me crazy, but if he has been able to be elected this many times, I personally believe that we should give this guy a shot. Everyone in the inside of the sport wouldn’t be giving him this many chances if he didn’t deserve it, so I genuinely believe that we as fans should do the same.

Also, I’m not completely against the idea of bringing down the contribution of D scores to the final scores. Sure, he messed up his words, but I still think that he has some good points. So if he decides that the numbers need to played around with in order to tweak with the system to bring it more to exactness, I don’t see a problem. And besides, it’s not like he has some sort of dictatorial control over how the Codes are written and made. If his suggestions are a problem, I’m positive that the WTC and MTC will block his motions. Come on guys, this isn’t a tyrannical autocracy here in the FIG.

Sorry for the long reply, but I’m honestly tired of seeing both so much anti-Mustafina and anti-Grandi sentiment.

Jack Matheson
Jack Matheson
7 years ago

I have to disagree with your assessment of artistry claiming Simone Biles has it all and Mustafina has a ballet training background but no artistry. You seem to think artistry is just smiling and being bubbly. I love Simone, love her personality, and I think her routine is well suited for her, but I do not enjoy watching her floor routine and do not find it artistic. It’s reminiscent of the terrible Romanian routines of the 90’s. Some people may like it, but I find myself skipping over it.

I could not disagree with you more on your assessment of Aliya’s routine. As the previous poster stated, it’s not all about your face. You emote more through your body and Aliya does that. I actually love Aliya’s beam choreography more than her floor choreography, she’s the only gymnast who really performs on beam.

Ty
Ty
7 years ago

I agree with your opinions about artistry. When people call Aliya or Kyla artistic I want to pull out my hair. Aliya is elegant, she has some pretty poses in her routine that would look good in a picture. But her performance is lifeless and empty. Kyla is even more robotic than Aliya is, if that’s possible. Simone and Larisa are performers. They’re expressive and connect with an audience. I’m not saying you have to be perky and vivacious like them. Think of Izbasa last year. Her floor routine was sultry, fierce, and everything that Aliya’s fans pretend her routine is.

anbana
anbana
7 years ago

Is this the episode where you asked whether someone has winked at judges before? It made me think of Daria Joura immediately! She winked when she got into her opening pose. There was a video on youtube where the commentators commented on this “Did she just wink at the judges?” “Yep.” But I couldn’t find that video 🙁 In this one you can maybe see it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jO4eb7RR8I I think it was choreographed into her whole Salute-Dance into opening pose-Pose-Smile sequence 😉 I loved her routine!

anbana
anbana
7 years ago
Reply to  anbana

Ahahaha I just heard Emma beat me to it 😀

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